Exploring The Iconic Sounds Of Maria Callas & Billie Holiday: Talent, Training, & Storytelling

Celebrating the human sound. This is The Unforgettable Voice — part of the Electric Secrets variety podcast. I'm your host, Scott Leon Smith.

Scott:

Hello everyone. Welcome to the first episode in this segment, we're calling The Unforgettable Voice and we are going to be discussing not only iconic vocal performers and what makes them unforgettable but will also delve into the realm of vocal performance which includes singing, voice acting, being a spokesperson or a personality that uses their voice. It's all about the great voices and why they mean so much to our lives.

So, speaking of great voices, the wonderful Lori Turner, my good friend, is my guest. She is a singer and actor, a teacher. She's a musician. She is a director. She does everything. You can name 10 more things that you do, Lori, if you want.

Lori:

Oh sure. Costuming and pet-sitting.

Scott:

You pet-sit too? That's awesome. 

Lori:

Mostly my own pet. 

Scott:

Your own pet. Okay. But you do it for other people? Okay. So maybe you can plug Lori's pet-sitting business such as it is.

Scott:

Lori, give my listeners some of your background and where you're coming from.

Lori:

Well, I trained as a vocal performance major. What that means is that you're training as a classical singer. I got my degree in vocal performance in the California Institute of the Arts in Los Angeles, just north of Los Angeles, and spent the first 20 years after college singing professionally. First with the Los Angeles Music Center Opera and later with the Royal Flemish Opera. And since that time, I've been doing a lot of teaching, some performing, and a little bit of directing, mostly with the children's program that I have a children's opera theater group. 

Scott:

So the Flemish Opera, can you give my listeners a little bit of idea? Maybe they haven't heard the word Flemish. Where is that?

Lori:

Yes, well Flemish. So that is, it's located in Belgium and Flanders is a portion of Belgium, the western part of the country. We had two opera houses. We had an opera house in Antwerp, which is the main place and we had an opera house in Hint, which was about 30 miles to the west of Antwerp. Belgium being a very, very small country. The country is about the size of Los Angeles, has three professional opera companies.

Scott:

Wow.

Lori:

Yeah, so we were in the Flemish portion, there's another professional company in Brussels, which is in the French-speaking part of the country and there is a third one in L'Ege, which is on their eastern border. 

Scott:

Wow, so three opera companies just in that small area. 

Lori:

Just in that small area. 

Scott:

We have one in Mansfield right now or a little outside of Mansfield.

Lori:

Oh, yes, and that's not even a full-time gig. These are full-time opera companies functioning with full seasons, with paid orchestras that are dedicated to that company, with paid choruses, with dedicated soloists.

Scott:

So we'll dedicate an episode to how that is possible through taxes.

Lori:

Right. Right. Funding.

Scott:

So what I want to talk about is I am fascinated by opera voice training and how rigorous it is. Lori, give my listeners an idea of how opera singers train and maintain their voices.

Lori:

Well, when you're singing opera, you are singing over an 80-piece orchestra without amplification. So the object is to train and utilize your instrument in such a way that you can do that without killing yourself every day. So you are training the body, you're training the muscles of the body that control the voice, control the support, control the breath, and you're also learning how to utilize the resonating cavities in your body to produce as beautiful and as relaxed a sound as possible and yet still be heard over an orchestra.

Scott:

What are the resonating cavities?

Lori:

Well, you have lots in your head because the bones in the head are very, very thin, so they vibrate with sound and I'm sure everybody has heard people that speak really forward like that. They're utilizing the front part of the resonance, the vocal mask, and then you've also heard people who speak or sing way far back and like their throat. And that's the back resonance.

Scott:

Okay.

Lori:

And ideally, we want a balance between the two, what the Italian masters called, the chiaroscuzo, the light, and the dark. 

Scott:

Yes.

Lori:

And that gives you the light, gives you the projection to be heard and the dark gives the roundness and beauty to the sound.

Scott:

I have been pronouncing that word wrong for years, chiaroscuzo. 

Lori:

Scuzo. 

Scott:

I thought it was scuro. 

Lori:

Yeah, that's what I meant. I was just testing you.

Scott:

Oh, of course. Well, thank you, Laurie. I don't know whether to feel empowered or humiliated right now, but I use that term when I taught Caravaggio in painting.

Lori:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott:

Laurie pronounced it differently.

Lori:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Lori: 

That's because I'm half-brained and I just interpolated an S into one of those words that didn't belong.

Scott:

That's totally fine. Now you know. But you can say it either way you want. We're giving you permission. So how does this translate to young voices? You teach younger, younger kids.

Lori:

Yes, yes. So I could wax eloquent on this for a while. The instrument is the instrument. We're training the instrument so that you utilize that instrument in a healthy way and in a way that now allows the singer to grow into their own sound.

I often give an analogy of a piano. You have the same piano sitting in a room and a jazz musician can come in and play jazz on it. And then you can have a classical musician come in and play classical music on it. You can have a rock and roll guy come in and play rock and roll on it. But the instrument is the instrument.

So what I do with my young students is give them good solid vocal technique. And then you create a style. You create how you use your instrument for whatever style of singing that you're going to do.

Scott:

And that was one of the things I wanted to talk with you about the difference between the operatic voice and the musical theater voice is a difference in style and not so much training. Would you say?

Lori:

Personally.

Scott:

Yeah.

Lori:

I appreciate a good solid classical training. Even if you're going to be singing musical theater because that's going to enable you not only to have a long singing career because you're not going to kill yourself but also enable you to change styles. If you are only belting, you are only belting. And also you're going to eventually do damage.

Scott:

Yes.

Lori:

So having a good solid classical technique means that you'll be able to take out the vibrato when you need to and not hurt yourself. Do a good vocal belt without killing yourself because you know how to do it in a way that's not harmful to the chords.

Scott:

For someone who comes out of a, comes from their talent, comes from raw talent, right? What would you say to that person who has a great voice and has great talent but has no training? How important is having training and talent?

Lori:

Right. Because your instrument is your body. And unlike the piano, which will be affected by the weather or the room ambiance or not being kept in repair, you are at the mercy of your body. If you are tense, if you didn't get enough sleep the night before, if you're sick, if you just had a fight with your boyfriend, all of that affects your instrument because your instrument is your body, the technique gives you consistency. So even though you have all those other factors coming into play that affect your instrument, you're still able to sing in a consistent and healthy fashion.

Scott:

All right. We're talking with Lori Turner. We are at The Renaissance Theatre. I forgot to mention that. The Renaissance is where Lori and I perform a lot and where Lori teaches the RYOT, the Renaissance Youth Opera Theatre. So yes, she's working with kids and she's singing and she's acting and she's doing all kinds of stuff and we're going to take a little break and we'll be right back with Lori. 

The Electric Secrets podcast has something for the creative spirit in all of us. Segments on acting and directing, Shakespeare, vocal performance, and finding inspiration for creative life. You can learn more about these segments at MonsterVoxProductions.com. We now take you back to The Unforgettable Voice.

Scott:

Okay. Welcome back. We're talking with Lori Turner about vocal performance and what you're listening to right now is the great Maria Callas. The piece is called Castadiva, which means pure goddess. Very appropriate.

Recently, a biopic film was released starring Angelina Jolie. Angelina Jolie. And I have not seen this film because I personally, this is just a personal thing, I'm usually disappointed with singers' biopics. I can't seem to suspend my disbelief when an actor is either lip-syncing, recording of the artist or if they're using their own voice and doing an impression of the artist. I think the one I enjoy most, I think maybe the only one I enjoy is Jamie Foxx's Ray Charles. He got pretty close with the style and the tone and all of that stuff. 

So Lori, what makes Maria Callas an opera diva, an iconic opera diva? What makes her voice unforgettable?

Lori:

Well, I was thinking about this because the easy answer is of course, you know, beauty of sound, right? But that's not really true because not every voice that captures us is a classically beautiful sound. So there's something else. There's an X factor beyond the beauty of the voice that makes it memorable, that makes it somebody that we want to listen to over and over again, especially when we're talking about Callas because there's a lot of controversy about Callas, whether she was truly a good singer. 

She had technical flaws. She developed a wobble at one point in her career. She sometimes didn't sing in tune. There's lots of recorded instances of her not being able to hit the high note, the big money note at the end of an aria.

Scott:

Can you define wobble?

Lori:

A wobble that's that's a, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, 

Scott:

Oh, wow, really?

Lori:

Yeah. Yeah, so there's, it's pretty much recognized that her technique may have been flawed, but there's something else about the voice. Personally thinking about it over this past week, I think it's the storytelling and I think that's what captures us. Whether we’re about Callas, which is a beautiful classical singer, or we're talking about Bob Dylan, who has a scratchy folk voice. There's something in the storytelling. That's what grabs you and gives the voice power beyond its own natural existence. If that makes any sense at all.

Scott:

Music and singers just have so much in common with actors that we don't think about.

Lori:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott:

And I think that's what we think about it, especially in technical, what we think of as technical genres like opera, where you do have to be very technical about hitting those notes and doing very difficult things with your voice.

So how does a singer or a performer transcend their training or their talent, I guess, or a combination of both to, well, let's talk about Callas. How does she do that?

Lori:

Well, I don't want to disparage Callas at all because that is a great voice, you know, and you have to have good technique in order to sing over that orchestra and have a career like she did.

In the classical realm, you are right. You have these parameters that you have to stay in, which is good singing, Belkanto singing. And within those parameters, you have to also discover what is the composer saying to you with this music? How can you tell by how he's written the vocal line, how he's written the orchestra part underneath you, what are the dynamics? And then you have to go into who am I playing? What is my character, the role that I am, the acting? So all of those things have to distill into telling that story. And I think she was a master at that. She told a story like no other singer of that time did, which is why we're still talking about her very passionately today.

Scott:

Is that something that can be taught?

Lori:

I think that it is something teachers can open the door to. 

Scott:

Okay.

Lori:

The student has to walk through that door.

Scott:

That's right. I agree. When I start my acting podcast. It is the work of the imagination. And your imagination has to be ready and honed because it makes you ready. It makes you ready to embrace all of those things that you're talking about, the character and the writing and the sound and the story and the context, all of that stuff. Have you seen the biopic?

Lori:

I've not yet. I do want to see it. But like you, I always walk into those kind of things feeling a little bit jaded and like, okay, prove to me that you can play this person. The only thing that I've heard about it from a music critic friend of mine was that he said, I liked the parts where Maria Callas was really singing.

Scott:

Oh, goodness. 

Lori:

But I haven't seen it.

Scott:

I think especially if it's, I think you're in a better position if it's an artist that you've never heard.

Lori:

Yeah. 

Scott:

You can get inspired to say, oh, okay, this, I enjoyed this movie or I enjoyed this performance. Let me learn a little bit more about this. 

Lori: 

Yeah, that's absolutely true.

Scott:

I think somebody's in a better position. I mean …

Lori:

She was a really interesting person beyond her professional career. Her personal life was crazy interesting. There's more to her than just the, the artistry.

Scott:

And we'll talk a little bit about that in our next portion. So we're just going to take a little break and we'll be right back.

We hope you're enjoying The Unforgettable Voice part of the Electric Secrets variety podcast. Be sure to subscribe for notifications when new episodes are available and to gain access to exclusive content and bonus material. If you have a question or a suggested topic for the show, feel free to drop us an email inf@monstervoxproductions.com. 

Billie Holiday:

I say I'll move the mountains and I'll move the mountains. If he wants them out of the way.

Scott:

Welcome back. This is The Unforgettable Voice part of the Electric Secrets podcast and I am here with Lori Turner. We're talking about vocal performance and the great Maria Callas. Just for the sake of discussion. I would like to compare Callas's voice with someone who to my knowledge never had any vocal training, but whose voice is also unforgettable. 

And that is the voice of Billie Holiday, whom I'm sure we all recognize. So let's, we've already kind of delved into it a little bit. Let's focus on Billie Holiday. What makes her voice unforgettable?

Lori:

Well, this is really the epitome of beautiful storytelling. Everything she did. She was communicating a raw emotion, a story. I don't even know if I have another word to give you, but even though that voice was not what we would think of as classical people, a beautiful sound, it was a beautiful song. 

Everything she did was a beautiful song because it had so much to communicate. 

Scott:

And it didn't matter what the subject of the song was. It could be a love song. It could be something like “God Bless the Child,” which is more of a parent talking to a child. It could be something like “Strange Fruit.”

Lori:

“Strange Fruit” gives you chills listening to her rendition of that. 

Scott:

And it's her voice, but the storytelling is unique. There's a unique part of her in all of those songs, “All Of Me,” or any of the love songs that she did.

What I've always found interesting about Billie Holiday was I learned that she attacks either before or after the beat. Never on the beat. Never that technical thing. It's like an individualized, showing that she's an individual. 

What’s your take on that?

Lori:

I absolutely agree. And I feel like what you as the listener receive from that is the story that's going on in the silences, what's happening between the phrases.

Scott:

Oh, yeah. Bring in Miles Davis, the notes that you don't play …

Lori:

Right. Right. Exactly.

The silence is important. But it not necessarily is silent because the band is playing underneath you. But what is happening in between where you cut off and where you attack? And that's why she wasn't too bothered about being on the beat because she was singing that story.

Scott:

Yes. Yes. If you listen to Billie Holiday, listen very closely, count the beat to yourself. You will notice that when she comes in, it's either ahead or behind the beat, rarely does she sing on the beat. So let's compare Billie Holiday and Maria Callas in terms of what they're bringing with their voice to storytelling, let's say personally because we started to talk about Maria Callas's life.

Lori:

Yeah.

Scott:

Billie Holiday's life.

Lori:

Yeah.

Scott:

Oh my.

Lori:

Yeah. Yeah.

Scott:

So much struggle and suffering.

Lori:

Yeah.

Scott:

Both of them.

So if I were to formulate this into a question, I would say, does struggle make a better singer? I will quote another great singer. Lotte Lenya.

Scott:

Lori, I want to know what you think.

Lori:

Well, okay.

Scott:

But you can do the quote.

Lori:

I'm going to quote Lotte Lenya first, who was the wife of Kurt Vile, a wonderful composer and playwright. And she said, “I could never truly sing until my heart was broken.”

Scott:

I'm going to weep for 30 seconds here. That is incredible. That is an incredible philosophy.

Lori:

So personally, I'm not sure that I would say one has to have a terrible life to tell a beautiful story, but I will say that the life experiences you have can give you empathy to tell a story in a more profound way. 

Scott:

You can see the struggle in someone else when you've struggled yourself.

Lori:

Yes. And you can communicate that you have that empathy, you have that understanding, then your listener is going to say, hey, that person gets me. And they're going to also be captivated by that music. 

Scott:

This was such a great discussion. Laurie, I really appreciate it. With those thoughts, we're going to bring this first episode to a close. My thanks to Lori Turner for sharing her expertise with us. I hope you come back and do another episode because this was awesome.

Lori:

Oh, thanks. 

Scott:

This was so much fun. We hope that you are inspired to explore and to keep exploring the great work of both Maria Calas and Billie Holiday. And hopefully, we can spend some more time really delving into both of those artists in a later episode. In the coming episodes, we'll welcome in more artists to discuss the great voices and why they mean so much to the world and so much to us.

o much for listening. We will see you next time.

Let's go out singing, Lori. 

Lori:

What shall we sing?

Scott and Lori:

If I were a rich man.

La de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de

de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de

Scott:

Bye, everybody.

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