Send In The (AI-Fueled) Clowns: A Small Business Saturday Special

Host:  Scott Leon Smith

Guest:  Abbey Kanellakis

Scott

Hello, and welcome to BizVox, a podcast for small businesses, entrepreneurs, and nonprofits. We're here to help you build your knowledge, spur your productivity, and have a few laughs along the way. 

This episode is coming to you from backstage at the Bucyrus Little Theater in Bucyrus, Ohio.

I'm Scott Leon Smith, and I'm your host. Let's talk some shop. 

Hello, everybody. Small Business Saturday 2024 is upon us. It's coming up very, very soon. And what better time to launch our new podcast, to celebrate our small businesses, get some new customers, and take some stock of our branding.

Welcome to this first episode of BizVox. I'm Scott. I'm your host. And I have with me, I'm always going to mess up Abbey's name. 

Abbey

Everyone does. 

Scott

Abbey, say your name so I don't have to mess it up.

Abbey

Abbey Kanellakis

Scott

I would have totally messed that up. 

Abbey 

It's a little Greek. 

Scott

She is a master online marketer.

We don't have enough time in this episode for your whole resume. So if you could give us a representative portion.

Abbey

Well, that's it! I'm out. I have to explain everything. But if you're not going to give me that, then I'm not going to be doing it anymore!

Scott

What???!!! Oh, come on. 

Abbey

No. Okay, so I have a long history in content marketing, going all the way back to journalism as it used to be, working for the newspapers. And then, needing to make some money, I went into public relations.

Scott

We're talking in the Middle Ages.

Abbey

We really are. 

Scott

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness.

Abbey

Yeah. My bones are creaking. 

But, yeah … So I have a degree in Mass Communication. I went into public relations from Kent State. And then since then, I've been I've won a lot of awards from the Association for Accounting Marketing. I've done some stuff with BDO, you know, Content Marketing Institute … I've been recognized through them. So, there's a lot of things that I've learned and kind of pieced it together on my own. But I've worked with a lot of top 100 CPA firm and business consulting type clients. But I've also spread out and done a lot in the nonprofit area as well.

Scott

So you know what you're talking about? 

Abbey

I'd like to think I do. 

Scott

All right, so we're going to be focusing a lot on branding in this series. 

The biggest thing with branding, especially and I'm coming from a personal standpoint. First time I've ever started a business, and I just turned 50, I've had my business for two years.

And now for me, that's such a headache to be consistent with my branding. So you could. So, can you tell us about what that means? What branding consistency means?

Abbey

Well, exactly. So I want to applaud you. Cue the canned applause. Because frankly, what has been great about learning of what you do is you are so in tune to what branding is. And so many organizations don't even know what branding is. And they group it together with, say, your marketing or advertising, and they just think that you can put a logo out and you slap it somewhere and that's branding. But it goes so much deeper. And I think as you are looking at brand consistency and what does it feel like? What does it taste like? Like some weird off-the-wall concepts to think, why does my brand have a taste? What does that even mean?

But I think it's valid, especially when you think of some of the big companies out there. Going back to even Nike, you know, it's like, what does that smell like? What does that sound like?

You know, it's a sports thing you hear basketballs, you see Jordan dunking the ball, you know, it conjures up those things. 

So, being able to consider different aspects of your brand voice and how it resonates with others and, you know, what emotions that conjures up kind of plays a 4D element to what your brand is.

Scott

So it's not so much, I don't, well, I'm using the word selfish, but it's not the selfish thing. I have to know what my brand looks like, sounds like, tastes like, smells like to other people and get off of myself.

Abbey

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because the truth is, at the end of the day, you do not define your brand.

It is everyone else around you who defines your brand.

Scott

Well, I'm in big trouble. No, I'm not.

All right, so let's talk about the voice of the brand.

Abbey

Yeah.

Scott

Like, how would you characterize the voice of McDonald's?

Abbey

You know, the first thing that really pops into my head is the Ronald McDonald clown. 

You know, I'm looking at something that's happy, that's very charismatic. Like, I'm not going to go creepy clown on you, but if I'm looking at McDonald's, it's joyful. It's childhood. It's, you know, whimsical almost. And they have done a good job over the years of being able to articulate that, especially for the young crowd.

And, you know, for good or bad, you know, we all grew up with, you know, Happy Meals. And now even today's more modern take on McDonald's, they are still pulling into that Happy Meal factor. They're re-marketing their content, which would be their burgers and fries.

And they are positioning them for an adult audience that grew up with their brand that's still looking for something more packaged and more whimsical, in a sense. I was there the other day, and I noticed that, you know, they basically had these Happy Meals for adults. And it was like, they get me.

Scott

So would you say that any time you hear, like, a voiceover on a McDonald's commercial, like, we're all familiar with the slogans that they've used, especially you and I, who've heard so many McDonald's slogans over the years. What do they all have in common in terms of the voice of the actor delivering those messages? What do you think?

Abbey

You know, I think that they don't take themselves too seriously when it comes to their marketing and how they sound. There's a lot of adult, you know, they have their deep-voiced actor selling their wares, but it's not, you know, how a CPA would be or, you know, a very stuffy. It's just someone who's living their life, and someone who's not going to take anything too seriously, and it's refreshing.

Scott

Would you say it's sort of like finding the kid in the adult, maybe? Is there that quality to the advertising? 

Abbey

I think there is.I think I like that, yeah.

Scott

Because I've noticed, like, especially with the current campaign, with the little sing-songy type of a thing that the adult does, it's almost like, okay, I'm adult, but I'm here, I'm having fun. I'm having a fun meal, so I'm singing to myself. And when you think about that stuff as a business and as your brand, I think those are key details that you have to think about, and not be afraid to think about them. And I think that takes you a little bit more out of your comfort zone, maybe, which is where you need to be or else you don't grow. 

Abbey

Absolutely.

Yeah, no, and I love how you did that, because especially when you, sir, you look at it as a consumer now, and you're like, they really put a whole lot of thought, they're really like into my head now.

Scott

And I can imagine, and you've probably been part of this as well, just the meetings of just, okay, let's hear this, let's listen to this person, let's look at this copy, these words, and all that goes into the, figuring out the, I guess, as close to perfect as you can get message and person delivering the message. 

And then at the same time, I will watch commercials or I'll listen to commercials and I'll think, how did they arrive at that? It doesn't make me want to buy the product, it makes me want to escape from this commercial because the choices that they made were so grating to me and annoying to me, but they might sell to somebody else.

Abbey

Well, I'm sorry to jump in here, but you're absolutely right, because going back to who your target audience is, and I think a lot of people really forget who they're marketing to at the end of the day. They think they know or they want to break into a certain segment, but they're not listening to what their audience is telling them, and they're not letting that direct what that voice sounds like.

Scott

So what's a basic thing that an entrepreneur can do to know what people are saying, to hear what they're trying to do? 

Abbey

Listen! Listen!

Scott

How do they listen?

How do you listen? What do you listen to?

Abbey

Very good question. If you are doing online marketing, you might look at what webpages they are clicking on. So you have a website up there, most people do. And, or if you don't have a website, you have a Facebook page, right?

So now, believe it or not, there's a very powerful listening tools built within those platforms and it's called analytics, and all you have to do is pull it up and you can see what people are clicking on, what people are engaging with, and the more engagement that you see tells you kind of what they're preferring, what they want you to sound like, what they want you to give more of. 

And so just by listening or viewing, in this case, you know, the data as it goes up and down, but it's telling a story, you know, you're able to see how many men versus women are engaging with your brand, the age groups, all of that makes a big difference when it comes to how you articulate your brand.

Scott

BizVox is your go-to podcast for business inspiration. Follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and subscribe for fun bonus content and exclusives. Need some help with your business' podcast? Check out www.MonsterVoxProductions.com for professional and affordable podcasting packages with free consultation. Small business, big voice. This is BizVox.

All right, we are talking with Abbey …

Abbey

Kanellakis. 

Scott

I'm not even going to attempt it because I'm sure I will get it wrong, but she is a marketing guru extraordinaire, and we're here talking about branding. 

Moving forward, let's say moving into 2025, what challenges are we going to be facing, easy for me to say. When it comes to branding, is there new stuff down the road, new technologies, new platforms? Well, we have to say yes, but anything you can let us in on or anything that you hear in the wind?

Abbey

I think everybody knows the same thing. Two letters, one catastrophic consequence, AI.

Scott

I would say many catastrophic consequences, but being in the voiceover business, we have a very strong opinion about these things. Well, at least I do, and I know it's either way. I mean, some artists look at AI as a way to continue their legacy as a voice artist, to say, OK, well, if I'm profiting so much from my voice, if I make an AI model of it, then my kids can profit from it after I'm gone, which is an interesting way to look at your legacy.

And I think if AI is helping you do that, more power to you. I think I have a few years left, so I'm trying to push my human voice and my human performance to get my clients to see, OK, AI is a cool thing, but it can only go so far. 

So what's your take on our potential overlords?

Abbey

So I can see AI and machine learning being an awesome asset to many people for many things, especially as it relates to productivity. And when you are in marketing, you're juggling so many balls at once that productivity needs to take center stage. You're not going to get it all done. You have to be everything to everyone. So I can definitely see the value. But as someone who is in content marketing, I see people always trying to, well, let's have AI write this social media post for you, or let's have them write this script.

Scott

And you see those products all the time now.

Abbey

And they're terrible. 

Like, I'm sorry, but nothing comes close to that human element. And being able to, OK, maybe you put a shell together with AI. It might sound OK, but you need a human to look at it, to engage with it, to understand how to change it. So once again, it fits your brand. You are unique, and AI, by definition, takes the uniqueness out of you.

Scott

And the way your brand communicates to people is unique.

Abbey

Right. So yeah, there's going to be a temptation to want to utilize more AI. And I think you have to be very cautious with that in any kind of creative method.

Scott

My experience with using it for video, for video images, for clients that I narrate audiobooks for. Now, obviously, I have clients that are thousands of miles away, and I can't come and do a video shoot or a film shoot where they live or around where. I just don't have the equipment for that, being a young business. So I tried out an AI platform online to create still images based on descriptions. Now, if you can imagine, I'm putting in descriptions for events that might happen in a Roman historical fiction novel. 

Abbey

Got it.

Scott

So I'll put in something like “Roman soldiers and Celtic soldiers fighting in a burning forest.”   Right? And the AI doesn't even know what fighting means.

Abbey

Wow. 

Scott

They'll have like one soldier and with a little fire behind them. And sometimes the eyes aren't quite right. They look kind of weird. And or sometimes instead of an arm holding a sword, they have a sword for an arm. And the best one was, you know how in Braveheart, they have the blue makeup, the Celtic blue warrior makeup. I put that in as a prompt and it gave me blue people. So it gave me, like, Avatar people.

Abbey

It was a blue man group.

Scott

So I was just like, okay, how does this, but you know what, I got some interesting images that I could use out of the, you know, probably less than a percent out of what I get from subscribing. You know, you get like a thousand generated images. Well, you're going to get very few that are going to be, you got to sift through a lot of, there's a lot of terrible, terrible attempts by this so-called intelligence that has all this knowledge back, you know, and you really don't know what knowledge it has, if it doesn't know what fighting means.

Abbey

Where that’s where the machine learning comes in. And that's why it's important and why they want you to subscribe then, because it takes like a million, 2 million, a billion searches and you grading it on how it's doing in order for it to actually produce something of quality. And so you're thinking, okay, this is going to save me so much time.

How many hours are you going to have to put in it to teach it exactly how to get to where you need it to get? So it's a walking oxymoron.

Scott

And it seems like the assumption is, well, people have already done that. This is all the deep learning that they're talking about is spending all this money on all the, every piece of information that has ever been is in AI. Well, it depends on where you are and who you ask and all that stuff.

So, oh, exciting modern times we live in. 

So, takeaways from our conversation … It's almost like, don't get caught in a selfish view of your branding. But at the same time, know that your branding is you and it can't be, it can't be a computer. It can't be something artificial.

Abbey

It can't be duplicated, replicated. This is, this is you. Exactly. I love that word genuine. That's what I try to bring to any client that I'm working with. It's, you know, I'm going to be genuine with you. You are, have a genuine brand. You are who you are, and that is what makes you important and makes you shine. So therefore I am marketing you in this unique, this unique area.

Scott

And that's, that's beyond voice acting. You know, if you're an actor, yes, you're selling yourself. You are the product, therefore you are selling yourself. But, at the same time, you know, I've been through so much schooling and experience as an actor. I don't see myself often the way other casting directors, directors, and my colleagues and my friends in the business see me. You know, so you don't know how you come off to people or how your message or your face or your product comes off to people until you ask them or until you find out how your communication is landing with others.

Abbey

Absolutely.

And I know we're in talking points, right, but I have to dig in here because nothing is more terrifying than looking at yourself as an actor, even as a business. So this is Small Business Saturday. We're talking about, you know, what can you do to improve your reach and improve your organization and your branding? And, how can we get there? It's going to take one of the, take you to do one of the most terrifying things that you've ever done. And that is to look at yourself, look at your brand, look at what you do every day. And you're not going to be able to improve truly or make any great strides unless you're willing to take a critical look at yourself.

Scott

And listen to what others, like if you're out there Small Business Saturday and you're selling and you're selling and you're talking to people and they start talking about your logo or the font of your logo or what a product looks like, you've got to listen to them. Because that's going to be a lot of your direction, I'm learning at least. 

Attention Ohio business professionals, BizVox needs your voice. We're booking guests for our first season. If you're a new entrepreneur, a veteran small business owner, an overstressed nonprofit warrior, or a grizzled guru of the grind and you'd like to be a guest on our podcast, hey, it's easier than morning coffee. Just reach out with a friendly email to info@monstervoxproductions.com. Big voices are always welcome. Back to the show. 

So, speaking of doing something terrifying, here's what we're going to try. Here's what we're going to do. Here's what we're going to do that is so terrifying. We're going to do a quick, super exciting action movie recap of our episode. So Abbey, are you ready?

Abbey

I'm ready. 

Scott

All right.

Branding consistency.

Abbey

Branding consistency and McDonald's clowns. 

Scott

The voice of your brand. 

Abbey

How do you articulate who you are?

Scott

Branding challenges. 

Abbey

It's time to listen! 

A.I. is the devil.

Scott

All right. Awesome. That was exactly the way I wanted it to be. A glorious train wreck. Thank you so much for that.

Abbey

I am a walking glorious train wreck. 

Scott

Action movie recap of a little gimmicky thing I wanted to try and it just crashed and burned so beautifully. Thank you so much. Abbey.

Abbey

Kanellakis. Let's go.

Scott

For starting us off with our first episode and our launch on Small Business Saturday 2024. Thanks so much for listening and best wishes for an exciting Small Business Saturday. Make new friends. Get new clients. Make some money. Tell the old clients how much you appreciate them and listen to them. Let's get to work. 

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